Vor genau einem Monat habe ich einen Abschnitt aus dem Dekret Ad gentes des 2. Vatikanischen Konzils hier zitiert.
Connie aus Taiwan (sie hat damals in dem dorm, einen kleinen Schülerinnen-Wohnheim bei mir im Haus gewohnt) hat das gelesen, und dann auch die englische und chinesische Übersetzung. Sie hat mir dann einen Brief mit einigen spannenden Beobachtungen und Fragen geschickt. Diese werde ich hier einfach mal an euch weitergeben (ich hoffe Englisch ist okay). Wer am heutigen Sonntag noch etwas Beschäftigung braucht, kann ja versuchen Antworten zu finden:
1. There are many kinds of ‘love‘, one of which is ‘charity’, but this doesn’t mean that charity equals love or vice versa. In the German version, the word ‘Liebe’ is used throughout the passage; in English, however, they say ‘charity’ and ‘love’. Don’t you find this interesting? The English version seems to make a distinction between devine love and human love. Of course they are not and will not be the same, but I think using the same word has a stronger impact and encourages people to love one another in the way God loves them. In the Chinese version, the word chosen means something combining ‘love’ and ‘virtue’ and is used throughout the whole passage.
2. Are the German ‘Religion‘ and the English ‘creed’ the same? I’m not sure what they really mean, but I think ‘Religion’ (and ‘religion’ in English) is broader than ‘creed’. ( ) In the Chinese version the word used here is ‘religion’, whose meaning I’ve understood as above. So, what does ‘Religion’ mean in German?
3. I can see that ‘ungeschuldet‘ doesn’t equal ‘unselfish’ completely. What does ‘ungeschuldet’ mean in German then? The Chinese version uses a term which means ‘without asking for anything in return’. Something to the effect.
4. In the Chinese version, it’s not clear whether ‘the kingdom of God has come or not‘, because, as you probably know already, Chinese language doesn’t show the information about time with tense. In the English version, we know that it ‘had come’ already. How about the German version? If something is ‘kommend’ is it still in the process of coming, or has it arrived already?
5. What does ‘sich hingeben‘ mean? The Chinese version uses the word meaning ‘to sacrifice’. I guess both the English and the Chinese versions are influenced by their own translation of the Bible.
6. When I was reading the German version, I thought ‘ die Erwartungen und die Rätsel des Lebens‘ meant ‘the expectations of life and the mystery of life’. Of course, this can be wrong, because I don’t really understand German and English very well. In English they say ‘longings and problems’; in Chinese it’s ‘requests and problems in daily life’. So again, what does ‘die Erwartungen und die Rätsels des Lebens’ mean?
7. German: ‘bemüht sie sich‘ -> ‘she strives to’ (?)
English: ‘she wishes’ -> it seems that she hasn’t tried hard enough (?)
Chinese: ‘eagerly willing to’
Wie gesagt, ich finde diese Beobachtungen sehr spannend (vielen Dank, Connie!) Wenn es schon in einem solchen kurzen Abschnitt so viele Unterschiede gibt, was ist dann mit den Bibel-Übersetzungen? Das Original des Dekrets ist das Lateinische, oder? Ich glaube, damit findet man schon manche Antworten. Dort wird z.B. von ‘caritas’ und von ‘amor’ für Liebe gesprochen.
Ich zitiere hier noch mal den Abschnitt, um den es geht, und hebe die entscheidenden Stellen hervor:
12. Die Anwesenheit der Christen in den menschlichen Gemeinschaften muß von jener Liebe beseelt sein, mit der Gott uns geliebt hat, der will, daß wir einander mit derselben Liebe begegnen (2) . Die christliche Liebe erstreckt sich auf alle, ohne Unterschied von Rasse, gesellschaftlicher Stufe oder Religion; sie erwartet nicht Gewinn oder Dankbarkeit; denn wie Gott sich uns mit ungeschuldeter Liebe zugewandt hat, so sind auch die Gläubigen in ihrer Liebe auf den Menschen selbst bedacht und lieben ihn mit der gleichen Zuwendung, mit der Gott den Menschen gesucht hat. Wie also Christus durch die Städte und Dörfer zog, jederlei Krankheit und Gebrechen heilend zum Zeichen der kommenden Gottesherrschaft (3) so ist auch die Kirche durch ihre Kinder mit Menschen jeden Standes verbunden, besonders aber mit den Armen und Leidenden, und gibt sich mit Freuden für sie hin (4). Sie nimmt an ihren Freuden und Schmerzen teil; sie weiß um die Erwartungen und die Rätsel des Lebens, sie leidet mit in den Ängsten des Todes. Denen, die Frieden suchen, bemüht sie sich in brüderlichem Gespräch zu antworten, indem sie ihnen Frieden und Licht aus dem Evangelium anbietet.
12. The presence of the Christian faithful in these human groups should be inspired by that charity with which God has loved us, and with which He wills that we should love one another (cf. 1 John 4:11). Christian charity truly extends to all, without distinction of race, creed, or social condition: it looks for neither gain nor gratitude. For as God loved us with an unselfish love, so also the faithful should in their charity care for the human person himself, loving him with the same affection with which God sought out man. Just as Christ, then, went about all the towns and villages, curing every kind of disease and infirmity as a sign that the kingdom of God had come (cf. Matt. 9:35ff; Acts 10:38), so also the Church, through her children, is one with men of every condition, but especially with the poor and the afflicted. For them, she gladly spends and is spent (cf. 2 Cor. 12:15), sharing in their joys and sorrows, knowing of their longings and problems, suffering with them in death’s anxieties. To those in quest of peace, she wishes to answer in fraternal dialogue, bearing them the peace and the light of the Gospel.
12 ???????????,?????,??????????,?????????????(????:?,11)????????????????? ???,??????,????????????????????????? ?,??????????????,??????????????????? ????????,??????,???????(???:?,35??;?: ?,38);??????????,???????????,???????? ???,???????(????:??,15)?????????,???? ????????,????????????????,????????????,??????????????
12. Praesentia christifidelium in coetibus humanis illa caritate animetur, qua nos dilexit Deus, qui vult ut et nos nos invicem eadem caritate diligamus.[59]
Caritas christiana revera ad omnes extenditur sine discrimine stirpis, condicionis socialis seu religionis; nullum exspectat lucrum seu gratitudinem. Sicut enim Deus dilexit nos amore gratuito, ita et fideles caritate sua ipsi homini solliciti sint diligendo eum eodem motu quo Deus hominem quaesivit. Sicut ergo Christus circuibat omnes civitates et castella curans omnem languorem et infirmitatem in sigum adventus Regni Dei,[60] ita et Ecclesia per filios suos iungitur cum hominibus cuiuscumque condicionis, maxime vero cum pauperibus et afflictis, atque libenter pro eis impenditur.[61] Participat enim eorum gaudia et dolores, novit vitae adspirationes et aenigmata, eis in anxietatibus mortis compatitur. Pacem quaerentibus respondere cupit fraterno dialogo, afferens eis pacem et lucem ex Evangelio.
Wie würdet ihr die Fragen beantworten?
Gefragt sind nun Leute, die entweder Deutsch, Englisch, Latein oder Chinesisch können (was hier auf jeden zutrifft, oder?). Wer noch andere Sprachen kann, darf sich auch gerne die anderen Übersetzungen anschauen. Es gibt noch: Französisch, Italienisch, Portugiesisch, Spanisch, Swahili, Tschechisch.
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Isn’t “ungeschuldet” “unobligated”?
Hello Scot,
thanks for your comment. Do you understand German?
If think you are right. “Ungeschuldete Liebe” means something like “love not owed” or “unobligated love”. (I think this is the first time I read the word “ungeschuldet”.)
But “unselfish love” and “unobligated love” have different meanings?
My Reply:
I don’t know Chinese, and only little Latin, soI have to concentrate on German and English.
1. As to “Liebe”, the English text retains the distinction between “caritas” and “amor”, but it would be rather difficult to express the difference between the two in German.
2. The “normal” translation of “creed” is “Glaube” (which may also mean “faith”) or “Glaubensbekenntnis” (apoltolic, Nicene,… creed), in this context this would imply that only different Christians creeds are in question, therefore “Religion” is the best choice.
3. “ungeschuldet” means “unobliged”, it is derived from “Schuld” (debt, guilt, fault), “debt” used figuratively for an obligation.
4. “kommend” is an participle (“coming”), it does not signify tense, rather an aspekt (roughly, “same time as the main proposition”, or even “duration”). In this context, I read it in the sense that the kingdom will come, i.e. it is in the process of coming and has not arrived yet. But other readings are possible. If I am not mistaken, the Latin text has a noun.
5. The basic meaning of “hingeben” is “devote, addict”(I just learned that “addict” has a second meaning besides “drug abuse”), the reflexive “sich hingeben” can be rendered as “to surrender to s.th., to give oneself to s.o.”. It is used, e.g., for the “surrender” of a woman to her lover. “Sacrifice oneself” is also a possible translation.
6. A possible misunderstanding may ly in the factthat the Genitive does not always have the same meaning in every language. I read “mysteries of life” as the mysterious aspects of life’s nature, but the German expression speaks of the expectations and riddles/myteries you experience in your life.
7. There are context where “sie bemüht sich” implies she has not tried hard enough, e.g. in a report about your performance in your job, only positive statements are allowed, so “less positive” statemenst like “bemüht sich” have to be read in a negative way. In this text, the statement is strictly neutral.
Itseems you know some German, perhaps you may find http://dict.leo.org helpful.
Thank you all for trying to explain!